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Thursday, February 04, 2010
Team Snacks should be stopped!
Friday, February 12, 2010
POTUS and Me? Same job. Less pay.

How do you feel about Trailer Church at school?
Over a year ago, I wrote the following post about the 'Trailer Church that could be found in front of many of the schools in Orange County. It received an out pouring of response from my readers. Today, as I dropped off my children at school -next to yet ANOTHER of these trailers. I felt my frustration growing. So I thought I would re-post and see what your thoughts are on this issue. In a not-really-funny-note, this is the same post that prompted my children's elementary school to ask me to step down as PTA president. For reals.

*BEFORE you read: I am a Christian. I love me some Jesus.
And I am not a Nazi.

After calling my children's school district to find out more about a 'Released Time' christian education trailer parked at a park near school property, I learned many many things.

1. I learned that while the school allows children to leave campus and go to this 'trailer' during lunch it does not consider that an endorsement of a particular religion.

2. I learned that the school district does no background/security checks on the volunteers/workers of "Release Time". No idea if they are on the sexual predator list or not. No idea who they are at all.

3. I learned that even though the trailer was parked in what looked like a city park- the school has a shared use agreement with the city and therefore it is school property until 4:00 each day.

And when I asked how this organization was going to promote their 'education', I was told they would be sending home a flyer to the students. So I asked "how is that possible with the separation of church and state?" and Mr. District said "any non profit group can send out district approved flyers to the children". I thought for a minute and said "SO lets say I am a NAZI. But I am a non-profit NAZI with a NAZI organization I would be able to send home flyers to ALL the CHILDREN in the SCHOOL DISTRICT?". I was met with silence and then a weak "well, YES." Seems to me there is a real problem with their policy.

Hello. CHURCH and STATE? I am a Jesus loving Christian - and this trailer recruitment offends me. Who the heck are these people trying to recruit my kids into their trailer? Isn't that just a large creepier version of the scary guy and his van? Gosh I hope they don't give out candy too. And what about the poor Muslim kid? Or the Jewish child? Don't you think they are going to feel displaced by this even though the district says it isn't but it is ENDORSEMENT of Christianity? Where are the Trailer Synagogue? Or Mosque? This whole thing makes me sad. And it scares me. But what do you think?

For this post I attempted to contact "Release Time Education" for comment. But apparently they have none. They never returned my calls or emails or letters. However by visiting their site I learned their are 309 trailers sitting outside elementary schools in the state of California. And I learned they are only permitted to be there at the discretion of the school district. So if the I school district says no, then they are gone. Remember these trailers are not visiting schools in remote locations, which are no where near a church....This is the OC and we have more churches in Orange County than nail shops...I am eager to hear any and all thoughts you have on this strange concept of 'trailer churches' in our school district. Both good and bad. You won't hurt my feelings. I like an active dialogue.....



Disclosure: Bloggers are often provided with free products, services and "experiences" from companies for the purpose of testing and reviewing them in a blog post. Any product mentioned in the blog posts of ocfamily.com may have been offered at no cost to the blogger.

Reader Comments
My brain hurts. How can they allow something like this and do absolutely no screening?! I don't understand. Religion or no religion at the very least the school's priority should be protecting the children. It may be a wonderful program but that doesn't excuse the lack of information.
Dandy|Reply
i'm a christian and i don't like this at all. i don't like that they are not screened, when parent volunteers have to be finger-printed to help out in class. this does NOT work for me. i'm in california and i'm gonna look to see if they are in my area.
Nicole|Reply
Wrong on so many levels - and it starts with whatever district this school is in. The district where we live does not allow flyers of any kind to be distributed or posted at the school without prior approval from the district office and there are NO vans promoting any religion or program near the school.
Priscilla|Reply
What I can't believe is the school personnel actually told you that if you were a Nazi you could send a flyer home? That's crazy. You would think (hope) if these flyers needed to be "district approved" that would not get through. I'm surprised his/her "Well, yes," hasn't gotten him removed from his position. This all seems a little wonky to me and has the potential of being disastrous for the school--no background checks, leaving school property... I'm curious if you are going to contact them again regarding the new trailer.
Suz Broughton|Reply
    Reply To : Suz Broughton  Um, that person? Was the school district superintendent. Yeah, I know. It tried to explain it was a a universal policy. That is was a GOOD thing, because they did not discriminate against any groups and everyone with non-profit status is allow to basically 'advertise' to the children in the district. We get as many flyers for school gym, sports training and art lessons home as we do actual school projects. It is JUNK mail. And they are using our kids to distribute. And this religion program is just capitalizing on this 'freedom'.
    Marcy Massura|Reply
    Reply To : Suz Broughton  Seriously people, it is the year 2010... has ANYONE ever seen a van with the words "FREE CANDY" driving around? NO! I can't believe you would google an image like that just to make your point, and 2nd that you didn't even research this large program properly. I called our school district and they have the names, fingerprints and FBI background checks of every single one of these teachers in the Released Time program. And this program is for any religion, due to the fact that we are lucky enough to live in the United States where we have freedom to do such. It is our job as parents to be involved and do our research, not just get caught up in the rantings and propaganda of someone's random blog.
    Joy Ladoga|Reply
    Reply To : Joy Ladoga  Thank you Joy for commenting and sharing your thoughts. Just so you know, in MY school district - they do not keep any records or perform any background checks on the Released Time employees. NONE. I believe Released Time says they do background checks- but in MY SCHOOL district (one of the largest in OC) the school district does no checking or record keeping of their own. So I wrote the piece based on my experience. I am happy to hear your district is more responsible. And let me clarify; my issue is not with 'religion' but rather religion in our public, government funded school system. Again thank you for being apart of this dialogue. I love to hear others opinions on things I feel passionate about!
    Marcy Massura|Reply
    Reply To : Joy Ladoga  Joy: I'm not sure why your comment is directed at me (I didn't write the post, just commented on it), but I will say I agree with you wholeheartedly, it's the parents' responsibility to be informed about their child. I did contact The Released Time Program myself the day this was posted to see if they would respond and they advised they would after they "thought about it." My kids actually don't even go to public school, they are in a private religious school, but I'm interested in the discussion of the safety of all children, not just my own. That is why I was asking if Marcy was going to follow up again--which I believe she did. Suz Broughton
    Suz Broughton|Reply
NO BACKGROUND CHECKS AT ALL?!?!?! Unacceptable. They are endangering your children by omission!
Helen Miller|Reply
    Reply To : Helen Miller  I was told later, after questioning one of the staff members in the trailer that the company 'release time education' does some kind of back ground checks. But the school district...which is sending home flyers, allowing children to LEAVE campus everyday at lunch does no checking on these employees. Granted it is with the parents permission. But many parentsI have spoken with with BELIEVED this was a school approved program.
    Marcy Massura|Reply
Interesting! great article. Hope you follow up and and get to the bottom of this!
sandra|Reply
Interesting! great article. Hope you follow up and and get to the bottom of this!
sandra|Reply
I suppose the school's insurance policy is in full agreement with the administration's decision? And I'm right with you on separation of church and state. This whole thing is NOT okay on at least a couple of levels.
foolery|Reply
We all know this world and especially the kids nowadays need a little more Jesus in their lives, but I have to agree with the fact that the parents should be the ones to involve them in that. You need to know who's offering what to your kids and in what context. I have no problems with the mixing of church and state however, our country was founded on the belief of one God and it'll definitely come back to bite us all that we tried to remove God from everything. This definitely warrants some additional research.
Jen B|Reply
I call Shenanigans on this! If memory serves, your kids aren't even in High School yet, and they are leaving campus to visit a van? What the hell, I couldn't leave high school until I was at least a sophomore in high school, and even then I had to get a lunch pass thingy from parents. It was to protect me from my own stupidity, I mean I was a teenager for heaven's sake. I really don't even get the point of this "ministry" I think there is a better way to reach youth then a flyer hastily handed out at recess.
Adam|Reply
I call Shenanigans on this! If memory serves, your kids aren't even in High School yet, and they are leaving campus to visit a van? What the hell, I couldn't leave high school until I was at least a sophomore in high school, and even then I had to get a lunch pass thingy from parents. It was to protect me from my own stupidity, I mean I was a teenager for heaven's sake. I really don't even get the point of this "ministry" I think there is a better way to reach youth then a flyer hastily handed out at recess.
Adam|Reply
It doesn't bother me if the truck is there. Since non-profits have to be OKed by the district I would like to think that the board would deny access to a Nazi trailer. As long as they don't make kiddos go or give everyone handouts. That there is no one from the school supervising & the trailer folks haven't been screened/fingerprinted... another story. Surprising since it is school property they are liable if something happens. Also letting the kiddos leave the campus at lunch... not OK.
kara-noel @ she's crafty|Reply
Wow, this is very scary and disturbing. I'm really surprised that they let this go on. Please keep us updated with any information or responses you get.
Jenelyn|Reply
Actually Kara-Noel, the district could not discriminate against a NON profit Nazi group they tell me. They can not deny 'flyer distribution' to ANY non profit group. (aside from pornography, alcohol or other adult activities of course! I had half a mind to form a random non-profit called "Kids for Sarcasm" and see if they would let me distriubute flyers and then take them to a trailer where I would perform stand up and teach them how to blog.
Marcy Massura|Reply
    Reply To : Marcy Massura  I'd totally let my kid go to your van.
    martha|Reply
Ok...I have to admit, I'd REALLY like to know one thing from you: Have you heard of Mormon Seminary? When I was in high school, I attended classes 5 days a week, at 6:30 in the am (UGH) at a church near my high school. In Utah, and other PREDOMINANTLY Mormon communities, arrangements are made with the high school so that students are able to leave during a free period (or release time) to attend these classes during the day. The classes aren't in vans...they're in nearby (read: walking distance) churches or homes of members of the congregation. We never, to my knowledge, send home flyers to students...the classes are set up through our congregations. Would that fly with you? You're right - something about the Trailer Church seems odd to me, especially at an elementary school, but...at the same time, I could see how it could do some good, especially if it were serving otherwise "latchkey kids" and keeping them out of trouble. Hrm....
Aunt oLo|Reply
    Reply To : Aunt oLo  Wow. That is amazing. I suppose if you live in a highly polarized Mormon community it would be accepted....but still surprising. Thank you for commenting and sharing your experience!
    Marcy Massura|Reply
I agree that this could lead to a slippery slope of propaganda from all directions and the fact that they aren't properly screened is just downright frightening. I do want to nitpick one issue though, for the sake of your own credibility. You make a big deal about the kids leaving campus, but then also that the trailer is on school grounds. I don't see how it can be both and one is enough to make your point, I think.
Andrea|Reply
    Reply To : Andrea  Good point Andrea! Well in my kids case the trailer was in a nearby park (which when I called the school district I found out it was actually school property during the day)...but in all other cases the trailer is parked down the street from the school....so the kids leave at lunch and walk down the street to the trailers. Side note: I saw a trailer at another elementary school parked on the street and PLUGGED in to CITY electricity regularily. I took photos and notified the city- and they said they would contact Released Time about it. Ugh.
    Marcy Massura|Reply
Anything in a "trailer" that is encouraging my kids to join in the fun - "Christian" or not - weirds me out. I would tell my children to steer clear, even though we love Jesus and I love Christian ministry. Something weird about the whole thing puts up the "stranger danger" red flag, especially considering you couldn't really get good info from the Released Time people. Thanks for making us aware.
Rachael|Reply
    Reply To : Rachael  And weirder still? They give out brownies and candy to encourage the kids to visit! (my son offered to do 'investigative' work for me on this issue. Turns out he just wanted to get some candy like the other kids got! Yeah. No thanks.)
    Marcy Massura|Reply
So, any non profit can use the school for free advertising? I work for a BIC OC nonprofit, so can I please send your kids to school wearing a sandwich board with our logo? If nobody ever gets turned away, I don't see the issue... Also--a background check without a fingerprint is NOT a background check! PS I HEART Jesus. But he didn't need a creepy van to share the Word.
Pam|Reply
    Reply To : Pam  Thanks for commenting Pam. There are two issues here in my article. 1) the flyer thing. Which is weird. And 2) trailer church. which is also weird. I am trying to get something in writing from the school district official who told me 'all you had to have was a non-profit to distribute flyers'
    Marcy Massura|Reply
There is something distinctly icky about ministry in a trailer. It just seems fly-by-night, as though they will just pack up like one of those old snake oil salesmen when they get run out of town for spreading lies and taking people's money. And speaking of money, is this organization asking for donations or passing the offering plate while they are proselytizing to the younguns'? Do they have a brick & mortar church somewhere?
Martha|Reply
    Reply To : Martha  Actually there is no brick and mortar church associated with the program. But it is a national program (and it is HUGE)...and it is a great question. I have no idea how they get funding to continue, but I will assume they survive off donations like all churches and religious 'businesses'. They have been operating this way since 1940. Thank you so much for commenting. Great question!
    Marcy Massura|Reply
    Reply To : Marcy Massura  Dear concerned readers, especially you moms, here’s a little info about those ‘trailers’ (not vans) that are parked near some of our Orange County schools. They belong to a ministry that teaches the Bible to kids who have been enrolled by their parents. The ministry operates under the ‘released time’ statute in the California state education code that allows school children to leave the school campus for about 45 minutes one day a week. The Supreme Court found the program constitutional but did stipulate that the program could not be conducted in a public school classroom. Any religion is free to conduct a ‘released time’ program so if muslim or jewish people want to get in on the action they are free to organize a program but it’s a lot of work and commitment. The ministries in Anaheim and Orange who do released time have been doing so for over the last 50 years, definitely not fly by night folks. They carefully screen their teachers, work closely with a large network of Orange County churches and are accountable to a board comprised of respectable clergy and business people. Their lessons and curriculum are available to parents who have kids in the program and parents are welcome to sit in with their kids. Kids are not recruited, their parents sign them up. They utilize trailers because they have found that to be the best way to minimize the distance that kids have to go to attend the once a week classes. What’s so creepy about a trailer that clearly advertises what is going on inside? By the way not all ‘released time’ classes meet in trailers. Some meet in churches and other venues that are close to the school. Most classes in California do not meet in trailers, there are not 309 trailers in California doing released time. The people I have met who do the program are dedicated and caring individuals who love kids, love the God of the Bible and understand that the only way many kids in the public schools are going to learn anything about the Bible during the school week is through a ‘release time’ type of program. The program is offered to parents who want their children to learn more about the Bible which for the first 100 plus years of our nation’s history was the backbone of our educational system. That was back in the day when divorce was rare, the crime rate much lower, etc. This program over the years has inspired thousands of kids, and has brought many of them into a wonderful relationship with Jesus. By the way, those of you who know Jesus, what is the problem with kids learning about Jesus through a released time ministry? Wasn’t it Jesus who said, ‘let the children come’?
    Sally|Reply
    Reply To : Sally  Secular schools have been around for more than 150 years and there are no statistics about the dependency on the Bible in secular schools as relates to crime and divorce rates. The fact is that the population of the country has increased at a rapid rate (from 3 million to over 300 million). The more people, the more crime. In "the good old days", people stayed in miserable marriages, tolerated child and spousal abuse, or just walked out. There was no internet to trace an individual, so if a man was unhappy, he could pack up and leave his family, move to another state, change his name and start over again with impunity. Personally, I still think trailer religion is creepy and weird. I stated why. I appreciate your posting of information about the organization. If a parent wants their child to have religious training, that's their choice and I won't stop them, but I do object to the fliers being sent home with the kids as though they are endorsed by the school; and whether you agree or not, the fact that Marcy's son went right on in and got a brownie for his trouble suggests that kids without parental permission are attending.
    Martha|Reply
    Reply To : Sally  Hi Sally. Thank you so much for taking the time to leave a comment in defense of the Released Time program. I want to make it clear that my article has three real issues. One of which has not much to do with your program...and that is the lack of oversight and control the School District (at least mine) is taking in regards to your program. When I contacted them, they told me they keep no records of the RTE employees or volunteers. The also said the school district does no background checking or verifying the RTE background checking process AT ALL. For a school to be allowing an organization to advertise thru the children to parents without at least verifying credibility of the organization is insane. 2) The whole concept of advertising programs religious or otherwise thru the children with the use of flyers bothers me. All I have to be is a non-profit? Ridiculous. 3) I will argue that the very presence of RELIGIOUS flyers distributed in the classroom, on school property is a direct and clear violation of church and state. Incidentally, RTE had a table at my sons back-to-school night as well. When I complained to the police providing security they removed them self from the property. I think the separation of church and state is a wonderful part of our freedom, and not to be glanced over. It should be adhered to FIERCELY. I fully understand that this organization has been operating for over 50 years, but that in itself does not in any way make it right in my eyes. (The Catholic church has been operating much longer and we are only now learning of horrible acts committed by many priests and clergy. So longevity is not credibility in my eyes.) Mixing religious studies with public education is constitutionally wrong. And advertising to the children thru the use of distributing flyers ON SCHOOL grounds is clearly a violation. These are my feelings. Opinions. I am happy to agree to disagree...and thank you for participating in this forum.
    Marcy Massura|Reply
Looks like there is a lot of law backing up the right of Released Time to conduct its activities, including a Supreme Court judgement in 1952 which was later upheld by the 10th District Court of Appeals. Since the children have to be enrolled by their parents, it doesn't seem like a problem to me. It's up to the parents to determine whether they want their kids to have one hour a week of religious education near school. Since Released Time has been active in schools across the U.S. since 1914, I would think they must have a pretty good track record of not molesting, selling drugs to, or otherwise harming children. Children are released from school for all kinds of activities with parents permission, aren't they?
Kathi D|Reply
One of my personal favorite Supreme Court Justices, William O. Douglas, wrote the majority opinion on the case governing this: "We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being. When the State encourages religious instruction or cooperates with religious authorities by adjusting the schedule of public events to sectarian needs, it then follows the best of our traditions, for it then respects the religious nature of our people and accommodates the public services to their spiritual needs. To hold that it may not would be to find in the Constitution a requirement that the government show a callous indifference to religious groups. That would be preferring those who believe in no religion over those who do believe. We find no constitutional requirement which makes it necessary for government to be hostile to religion and to throw its weight against efforts to widen the effective scope of religious influence." -- Justice William O. Douglas, Zorach v. Clauson (1952)
Kathi D|Reply
There is a Jewish Released Time program in New York. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Released_Time
Kathi D|Reply
Also, the Mormon seminary program operates under the Released Time laws. Sorry I keep talking! I just found this fascinating so I've been spending the morning researching it. All the years I have spent being married to an appellate lawyer have rubbed off on me. I can't resist a Constitutional issue.
Kathi D|Reply
OK, now I am confused. In researching this, I found that you said on your blog at the time you resigned from the PTA position that it was a different post that caused the flap. This one: http://marcywrites.com/2009/03/caution-children-acting-like-children-ahead/ But what is really bugging me is that I have to say I don't think you played fair with this issue. First, you didn't make it clear that the children have to have their parents' permission before they are allowed to attend the classes. Second, you equate these classes with drug dealers lurking near schools, and use the word "creepy" to describe the trailer, which is inflammatory and not really fair. Third, you don't seem to have researched this very thoroughly, because the concept of Released Time isn't restricted to Christian activities, but is available to any religious training. Finally, the Nazi thing? It's true that in a free society, sometimes we have to grant freedom even to those with whom we don't agree. It's the same freedom that allows you (or me) to speak freely. I'm hoping you'll give this issue some more thought.
Kathi D|Reply
    Reply To : Kathi D  Both this post and the other- were cause for me to resign as PTA president. One post started the dialogue and the other finished it. I feel I have been very fair, and accurate TO MY EXPERIENCE. This article was written based on my phone calls and emails with my school district. Nothing is manufactured or made up. It is 100% accurate. It is all real. Trailers are creepy. TO ME. Remember this is a blog. So it represents my opinion. It is not meant to be objective journalism. It is what I think. From my perspective..and trailer are creepy to me. Having the parents permission is a non-issue for me. What is an issue is the fact that the children are used to distribute religious flyers home to their parents on school grounds which violates MY interpretation of church and state. I am sorry you feel otherwise. Really surprising.
    Marcy Massura|Reply
    Reply To : Marcy Massura  I can't agree that you are being fair on this one. Calling it "trailer church" and invoking fears of sexual predation seems unnecessarily inflammatory and, in my opinion, weakens any further arguments you have with the program. Also, parental consent is a major issue--you make it sound like the teachers are standing in the doorway of the trailer waving candy and beckoning stray students to come on in, when in fact they have to be pre-registered by their parents. If you find it so worrisome that the teachers aren't screened by the school district, I'm surprised you would allow your own son to go inside. You are certainly welcome to express your opinions in your own blog, but in fairness, you should make sure to have all the facts straight before launching what amounts to a witch hunt. There aren't 309 trailers parked outside schools in California, and neither you nor I know whether they do, in fact, visit schools in remote locations. It's fine to have fiery opinions, but when you know you're dealing with controversial topics, it would be good to be armed with at least as many facts as opinions, don't you think?
    Kathi D|Reply
    Reply To : Marcy Massura  Marcy -must you continue to unfairly characterize these mobile facilities as "creepy"? Surely you can understand & appreciate the practicality of being able to transport these mobile classrooms around the OC in order to service a wider area? Are you really the sort that thinks a "trailer" is beneath you?(not a very humble viewpoint if so) Is that what this is really about? How about the modular facilities used at most schools in OC? THEY ARE BASICALLY THE SAME THING. Also, I agree with another poster's comment about your shameful use of a "free candy" van photo...very insulting and inflammatory towards good people from local churches that care about the lives -and eternal lives of children. F.Y.I. -I am part of a two person team that does R.T. classes once a week and have been amazed at how much this is needed. Haven't you noticed that teens are getting pregnant abandoning babies in dumpsters these days? Do you not recognize the need? I strongly urge you to examine yourself, and your faith, -to see if an Orange County lifestyle(or some other bias) is keeping you from appreciating what God is doing in the lives of so many kids through R.T. Mr. Lee "Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith" 2-Cor 13:5
    "Mr. Lee" |Reply
    Reply To : Marcy Massura  The principal must have a very slow burn time, because your original post of this was a full 7 months before you resigned as PTA president.
    Kathi D|Reply
The issue stands, for me, that a parent unloading from a backpack papers to be signed and returned to the school (or not) believes that the school has done some homework regarding the events or programs it offers. If the district has no information about the group, or especially has done no background checks of their own, this should be VERY clear. Something like this: "We wish to stress to parents that, while XYZ Group has a long-standing tradition of working with school-aged kids in California, and while we have no complaints or concerns regarding their program, our district has not conducted any background checks of our own. Parents should contact XYZ Group directly for further information." This group has a long history, it seems, and may be just fine (probably are), but THE DISTRICT POLICY is slipshod and I agree with Marcy that it needs to be addressed PRONTO. The next group that comes along wanting release time access to the children may not be as reliable. And the whole thing about the van/trailer is probably creepy to parents because we spend SO much time warning our kids about entering strange vehicles. Sorry, Pavlov's dog wins this issue -- van/trailer = creepy by default. ; )
foolery|Reply
    Reply To : foolery  OK, I don't want to beat this totally into the ground--but I get that you warn the kids not to enter strange vehicles, etc. But the kids aren't allowed to enter this particular strange vehicle unless the parents have already given their WRITTEN consent! Good lord! If my mother had been that weirded out by vans and such, I would not have been able to spend many a happy hour in the BOOKMOBILE. Yes, a VAN, sent by the city library into neighborhoods so that kids who might not be able to go to the big library downtown could check out books.
    Kathi D|Reply
After sleeping on this, I guess what really bothers me is that the people working in that trailer are actual human beings, probably moms and dads themselves, and very probably good and decent people. I don't think it's necessary to imply that they are child molesters in order to make the point about whether or not you agree with having the optional Bible education available. It cheapens the argument and frankly, just seems mean.
Kathi D|Reply
Marci, find me where is the "separation of church and state" in US constitution? Welcome to Christian nation as it is clearly written in our pledge allegiance to the flag (I hope you are US citizen!). Read our beloved US constitution for 10 + times and you will find there is nowhere in our constitution indicating there is a law separating church and state... and believe me we need more good christians like you becoming "salt and light" by serving our children with positive messages (ie. volunteering your time with Released Time program) I am confident we don't need to ask for your back ground check before entering our school campus, all you need to do is just sign up in the front office . Again, welcome to Christian nation!
CRA|Reply
    Reply To : CRA  Actually background checks are performed on our regular parent volunteers at my children's public school. And no parent volunteers are permitted to be alone with the children without a teacher present. And in regards to the history of the seperation of church and state. I found this: The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The modern concept is often credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke, but the phrase "separation of church and state" is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. It has since been in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court,[1] That said, I find fault with THE SCHOOL DISTRICT for allowing these religious flyers promoting a religious program to be distributed to the children on government owned schools. And really? That is my big issue here. Thank you for taking the time to join the discussion here at OCFamily. It always makes blog posts more informative and entertaining when other opinions are expressed such as yours.
    Marcy Massura|Reply
Hi Marci, Everyone in America, of course, is entitled to an opinion and free expression of ideas. This is a cherished right. Nonethless, there are limits to what a person may say or write. All of us are quite aware of the old cliche that nobody may scream "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater unless there truly really is a fire. We don't have that kind of freedom because it can cause grave harm, even death, to others if a stampede occurs. In my opinion, your blog is screaming "FIRE", Marci. When a person infringes upon the rights of others to legally practice their religion, it's at best borish. At worst, it may be illegal. Furthermore, a person who willfully misrepresents an organization and its volunteers in writing or photography is crossing all sorts of boundaries. NAZIS? A candy bus? Creepy? Nonsense. I urge your readers to check the facts (read below if you wish -- I'll add more). You ought to be more thoughtful, Marci. You ought to aplogize. CRT is unlikely to sue anyone because of its decency and principles...but you never know.
Kyle P|Reply
    Reply To : Kyle P  Sue me? For voicing my opinion? I hope they do. I would love to have an opportunity to discuss this with the main stream media. LOVE to inform more people about my opinion. I will never, ever apologize for having an opinion. An opinion which has not changed in any way after posting this blog. I understand that you feel differently than me. I accept that. But I still feel that distributing flyers on school grounds to children about a religious program is wrong. ANY religious program doing this would be wrong in my eyes-so it is not just about RTE. Thanks again for commenting and being apart of this lively debate on a topic so many feel passionate about.
    Marcy Massura|Reply
    Reply To : Marcy Massura  Marcy, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion(s). I thought NAZIS, Candy bus and Creepy were pretty funny imaginative words as are "fat, short, smelly". However, you being a dedicated God commissioned Christian, it might be wise to just apologize for choosing words with slight scent of offensive humor....(from your guest blogger "Kyle"'s perspective.) Always remember that our Lord Jesus Christ as given His own life for our misdeeds/salvation. Hence we are NEVER ashamed of declaring His glorious name Jesus Christ. I strongly believe these Released Time people have nothing but a positive intention in serving our children with abundance of pure love. Thank you Released Time people and please keep up with good work. May God Bless everyone! Thank you Marcy for being a bold sister in Christ.
    CRA|Reply
To All Readers: Christian Released Time is a non-denominational organization that has trained volunteers. Many are mothers whose children attend their local schools. All must meet the highest standards of integrity, human decency, and honesty. All must have a faith in God, be members in an well- established local church, and be trained in working with children (please note that child care providers in churches must meet state standards). Some are even school teachers who are licensed and credentialed in the state of California. There are always two adult volunteers on every bus. Bus drivers must have the proper training and vaild driver's license to operate trucks and buses. These are wonderful and trustworthy people, and parents often get to know them quite well.
Kyle P|Reply
As I stated above, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of released time programs in 1952, and the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals reiterated the rights of parents to have their children receive religious education during school hours. Part of the ruling reads: "Schools should avoid entangling their administration with that of any church program when keeping track of student attendance from released-time programs, according to a federal appeals court in Lanner v. Wimmer (10th Cir. 1981). The court required schools to find the “least entangling” means of preventing truancy, which meant school officials should not have to hunt down attendance slips at religious institutions." I'm thinking this is why the school district takes no action to approve teachers in the released time programs via background checks or any other means. If the school had approval or disapproval rights, it surely would violate the separation of church and state doctrines. As for the school allowing the flyers to be distributed, as long as they don't favor one program over another, they can't be seen as endorsing a particular program. The opinion further states: "[P]ublic school accommodation of religious beliefs through a released-time program is a largely passive response to parental assertions of the right to 'direct the upbringing and education of children,'" according to a federal appellate court in Lanner v. Wimmer (10th Cir. 1981), citing Pierce, and Wisconsin v. Yoder (1972)." Note that the opinion references "public school accomodation," which would seem to cover distribution of flyers. As long as the school doesn't favor one program over another, they are merely passively accomodating parental rights to direct the upbringing of their own children. Obviously the school district can't force other religious groups to come forward with competing plans; all they can do is accomodate all religious groups equally.
Kathi D|Reply
Marcy, it's always good to investigate the truth. The Separation of Church and State David Barton - 01/2001 In 1947, in the case Everson v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court declared, "The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach." The "separation of church and state" phrase which they invoked, and which has today become so familiar, was taken from an exchange of letters between President Thomas Jefferson and the Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut, shortly after Jefferson became President. The election of Jefferson – America's first Anti-Federalist President – elated many Baptists since that denomination, by-and-large, was also strongly Anti-Federalist. This political disposition of the Baptists was understandable, for from the early settlement of Rhode Island in the 1630s to the time of the federal Constitution in the 1780s, the Baptists had often found themselves suffering from the centralization of power. Consequently, now having a President who not only had championed the rights of Baptists in Virginia but who also had advocated clear limits on the centralization of government powers, the Danbury Baptists wrote Jefferson a letter of praise on October 7, 1801, telling him: Among the many millions in America and Europe who rejoice in your election to office, we embrace the first opportunity . . . to express our great satisfaction in your appointment to the Chief Magistracy in the United States. . . . [W]e have reason to believe that America's God has raised you up to fill the Chair of State out of that goodwill which He bears to the millions which you preside over. May God strengthen you for the arduous task which providence and the voice of the people have called you. . . . And may the Lord preserve you safe from every evil and bring you at last to his Heavenly Kingdom through Jesus Christ our Glorious Mediator. [1] However, in that same letter of congratulations, the Baptists also expressed to Jefferson their grave concern over the entire concept of the First Amendment, including of its guarantee for "the free exercise of religion": Our sentiments are uniformly on the side of religious liberty: that religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals, that no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious opinions, [and] that the legitimate power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor. But sir, our constitution of government is not specific. . . . [T]herefore what religious privileges we enjoy (as a minor part of the State) we enjoy as favors granted, and not as inalienable rights. [2] In short, the inclusion of protection for the "free exercise of religion" in the constitution suggested to the Danbury Baptists that the right of religious expression was government-given (thus alienable) rather than God-given (hence inalienable), and that therefore the government might someday attempt to regulate religious expression. This was a possibility to which they strenuously objected-unless, as they had explained, someone's religious practice caused him to "work ill to his neighbor." Jefferson understood their concern; it was also his own. In fact, he made numerous declarations about the constitutional inability of the federal government to regulate, restrict, or interfere with religious expression. For example: [N]o power over the freedom of religion . . . [is] delegated to the United States by the Constitution. Kentucky Resolution, 1798 [3] In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general [federal] government. Second Inaugural Address, 1805 [4] [O]ur excellent Constitution . . . has not placed our religious rights under the power of any public functionary. Letter to the Methodist Episcopal Church, 1808 [5] I consider the government of the United States as interdicted [prohibited] by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions . . . or exercises. Letter to Samuel Millar, 1808 [6] Jefferson believed that the government was to be powerless to interfere with religious expressions for a very simple reason: he had long witnessed the unhealthy tendency of government to encroach upon the free exercise of religion. As he explained to Noah Webster: It had become an universal and almost uncontroverted position in the several States that the purposes of society do not require a surrender of all our rights to our ordinary governors . . . and which experience has nevertheless proved they [the government] will be constantly encroaching on if submitted to them; that there are also certain fences which experience has proved peculiarly efficacious [effective] against wrong and rarely obstructive of right, which yet the governing powers have ever shown a disposition to weaken and remove. Of the first kind, for instance, is freedom of religion. [7] Thomas Jefferson had no intention of allowing the government to limit, restrict, regulate, or interfere with public religious practices. He believed, along with the other Founders, that the First Amendment had been enacted only to prevent the federal establishment of a national denomination – a fact he made clear in a letter to fellow-signer of the Declaration of Independence Benjamin Rush: [T]he clause of the Constitution which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity through the United States; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians and Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes and they believe that any portion of power confided to me will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly. [8] Jefferson had committed himself as President to pursuing the purpose of the First Amendment: preventing the "establishment of a particular form of Christianity" by the Episcopalians, Congregationalists, or any other denomination. Since this was Jefferson's view concerning religious expression, in his short and polite reply to the Danbury Baptists on January 1, 1802, he assured them that they need not fear; that the free exercise of religion would never be interfered with by the federal government. As he explained: Gentlemen, – The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association give me the highest satisfaction. . . . Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association assurances of my high respect and esteem. [9] Jefferson's reference to "natural rights" invoked an important legal phrase which was part of the rhetoric of that day and which reaffirmed his belief that religious liberties were inalienable rights. While the phrase "natural rights" communicated much to people then, to most citizens today those words mean little. By definition, "natural rights" included "that which the Books of the Law and the Gospel do contain." [10] That is, "natural rights" incorporated what God Himself had guaranteed to man in the Scriptures. Thus, when Jefferson assured the Baptists that by following their "natural rights" they would violate no social duty, he was affirming to them that the free exercise of religion was their inalienable God-given right and therefore was protected from federal regulation or interference. So clearly did Jefferson understand the Source of America's inalienable rights that he even doubted whether America could survive if we ever lost that knowledge. He queried: And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have lost the only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? [11] Jefferson believed that God, not government, was the Author and Source of our rights and that the government, therefore, was to be prevented from interference with those rights. Very simply, the "fence" of the Webster letter and the "wall" of the Danbury letter were not to limit religious activities in public; rather they were to limit the power of the government to prohibit or interfere with those expressions. Earlier courts long understood Jefferson's intent. In fact, when Jefferson's letter was invoked by the Supreme Court (only twice prior to the 1947 Everson case – the Reynolds v. United States case in 1878), unlike today's Courts which publish only his eight-word separation phrase, that earlier Court published Jefferson's entire letter and then concluded: Coming as this does from an acknowledged leader of the advocates of the measure, it [Jefferson's letter] may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the Amendment thus secured. Congress was deprived of all legislative power over mere [religious] opinion, but was left free to reach actions which were in violation of social duties or subversive of good order. (emphasis added) [12] That Court then succinctly summarized Jefferson's intent for "separation of church and state": [T]he rightful purposes of civil government are for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order. In th[is] . . . is found the true distinction between what properly belongs to the church and what to the State. [13] With this even the Baptists had agreed; for while wanting to see the government prohibited from interfering with or limiting religious activities, they also had declared it a legitimate function of government "to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor." That Court, therefore, and others (for example, Commonwealth v. Nesbit and Lindenmuller v. The People), identified actions into which – if perpetrated in the name of religion – the government did have legitimate reason to intrude. Those activities included human sacrifice, polygamy, bigamy, concubinage, incest, infanticide, parricide, advocation and promotion of immorality, etc. Such acts, even if perpetrated in the name of religion, would be stopped by the government since, as the Court had explained, they were "subversive of good order" and were "overt acts against peace." However, the government was never to interfere with traditional religious practices outlined in "the Books of the Law and the Gospel" – whether public prayer, the use of the Scriptures, public acknowledgements of God, etc. Therefore, if Jefferson's letter is to be used today, let its context be clearly given – as in previous years. Furthermore, earlier Courts had always viewed Jefferson's Danbury letter for just what it was: a personal, private letter to a specific group. There is probably no other instance in America's history where words spoken by a single individual in a private letter – words clearly divorced from their context – have become the sole authorization for a national policy. Finally, Jefferson's Danbury letter should never be invoked as a stand-alone document. A proper analysis of Jefferson's views must include his numerous other statements on the First Amendment. For example, in addition to his other statements previously noted, Jefferson also declared that the "power to prescribe any religious exercise. . . . must rest with the States" (emphasis added). Nevertheless, the federal courts ignore this succinct declaration and choose rather to misuse his separation phrase to strike down scores of State laws which encourage or facilitate public religious expressions. Such rulings against State laws are a direct violation of the words and intent of the very one from whom the courts claim to derive their policy. One further note should be made about the now infamous "separation" dogma. The Congressional Records from June 7 to September 25, 1789, record the months of discussions and debates of the ninety Founding Fathers who framed the First Amendment. Significantly, not only was Thomas Jefferson not one of those ninety who framed the First Amendment, but also, during those debates not one of those ninety Framers ever mentioned the phrase "separation of church and state." It seems logical that if this had been the intent for the First Amendment – as is so frequently asserted-then at least one of those ninety who framed the Amendment would have mentioned that phrase; none did. In summary, the "separation" phrase so frequently invoked today was rarely mentioned by any of the Founders; and even Jefferson's explanation of his phrase is diametrically opposed to the manner in which courts apply it today. "Separation of church and state" currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant. Endnotes 1. Letter of October 7, 1801, from Danbury (CT) Baptist Association to Thomas Jefferson, from the Thomas Jefferson Papers Manuscript Division, Library of Congress, Washington, D. C. (Return) 2. Id. (Return) 3. The Jeffersonian Cyclopedia, John P. Foley, editor (New York: Funk & Wagnalls, 1900), p. 977; see also Documents of American History, Henry S. Cummager, editor (NY: Appleton-Century-Crofts, Inc., 1948), p. 179. (Return) 4. Annals of the Congress of the United States (Washington: Gales and Seaton, 1852, Eighth Congress, Second Session, p. 78, March 4, 1805; see also James D. Richardson, A Compilation of the Messages and Papers of the Presidents, 1789-1897 (Published by Authority of Congress, 1899), Vol. I, p. 379, March 4, 1805. (Return) 5. Thomas Jefferson, Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Ellery Bergh, editor (Washington D. C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. I, p. 379, March 4, 1805. (Return) 6. Thomas Jefferson, Memoir, Correspondence, and Miscellanies, From the Papers of Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Randolph, editor (Boston: Gray and Bowen, 1830), Vol. IV, pp. 103-104, to the Rev. Samuel Millar on January 23, 1808. (Return) 7. Jefferson, Writings, Vol. VIII, p. 112-113, to Noah Webster on December 4, 1790. (Return) 8. Jefferson, Writings, Vol. III, p. 441, to Benjamin Rush on September 23, 1800. (Return) 9. Jefferson, Writings, Vol. XVI, pp. 281-282, to the Danbury Baptist Association on January 1, 1802. (Return) 10. Richard Hooker, The Works of Richard Hooker (Oxford: University Press, 1845), Vol. I, p. 207. (Return) 11. Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia (Philadelphia: Matthew Carey, 1794), Query XVIII, p. 237. (Return) 12. Reynolds v. U. S., 98 U. S. 145, 164 (1878). (Return) 13. Reynolds at 163. (Return) This site belongs to WallBuilders, LLC, a Texas Limited Liability Corporation | PO Box 397 | Aledo, Texas | 76008 | Contact Us Site designed and powered by Blepo. I hope this helps. Jesus loves you Marcy and thank you for being a good Christian in this awesome Christian nation.
CRA|Reply
    Reply To : CRA  LOL. You're quoting DAVID BARTON, a notorious "America is a Christian Nation" history hack, to defend the idea that these programs have any business anywhere near a public school?? Seriously??? I'd also like to make fun of your own cut-and-past hack job, but I don't want you to... [gasp!] sue me. Instead I'll leave you with these revealing David Barton quotes: The United States of America are a Christian Nation." "The founding fathers were evangelical Christians." "Church-state separation is a liberal myth."
    bmtt|Reply
    Reply To : bmtt  Why are you so upset? I am just a proud American living in Christian nation USA. If you have a hard time pledging to our American flag from the bottom of your heart "..... under God ..", you might consider denouncing your American citizenship and move to another country. Here in America we serve Jesus Christ .......as Indians from India serve Hindu and Saudis serve Mohammad . All we are asking here is a proper due respect/pride to our history and the fabric/color/tradition of this nation.
    CRA|Reply
    Reply To : bmtt   Our first President George Washington had a important message for all of us..still valued after 204 years later and counting. Wow! Washington's Farewell Address (issued as a public letter in 1796) was one of the most influential statements of American political values.[32] Drafted primarily by Washington himself, with help from Hamilton, it gives advice on the necessity and importance of national union, the value of the Constitution and the rule of law, the evils of political parties, and the proper virtues of a republican people. In the address, he called morality "a necessary spring of popular government." He said, *"reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle" – making the point that the value of religion is for the benefit of society as a whole.[33] Again, thank you Released Time Volunteers! You people have certainly have made our first president very proud ....with your unselfish devotion in re -building Godly principle in our youth's lives.
    CRA|Reply
    Reply To : bmtt  Evidently President Washington's thoughts were echoed with modern American leader Martin Luther King Jr. in his world famous speech called "I have a dream today". He also proclaims our nation is a Godly Christian nation and obedience to God allows us to come together in mutuality/equality with respect and love for another. Let's revisit ending portion of this great speech. YES! GOD IS GOOD! [I have a dream today]. I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plains and the crooked places will be made straight and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together. This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the South with. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day. This will be the day, this will be the day when all of God's children be able to sing with new meaning "My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring!" And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania. Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado. Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California. But not only that, let freedom, ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia. Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tenneessee. Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi, from every mountainside. Let freedom ring, And when this happens,and when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old negro spiritual, "Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, we are free at last." Dear readers, we are all God's children! I love all of you and I love USA ... known world -wide /declared through out the history ... the greatest Christian nation on the earth.
    CRA|Reply
Marcy and friends, just open up the exploration of inquiring minds you may visit some very informative sites;.................... www.wallbuilders.com or www.harvest.org................. I love these sites...please enjoy! God Bless America.
CRA|Reply
    Reply To : CRA  Yes, "exploring minds" SHOULD check out "wallbuilders" (David Barton's organization for tearing DOWN the wall that separates church and state). In fact, if you want to hear David Barton preach on America, The Christian Nation, folks can go to your OTHER link, Havest Online, as Barton was a guest speaker at an OC "Crusade." Please continue posting comments. You're saving me work, making my points for me.
    bmtt|Reply
    Reply To : bmtt  Our blog host Marci said with pride and without fear of being arrested " I am a Jesus loving Christian" because she/all of us are lucky to live in this Christian nation. It's good to live in a Christian nation. Be happy about it.
    CRA|Reply
Happy Valentines day everyone! This certainly is a difficult time for many of us due to a bad economy situation since the Great Depression days. My prayers are with your family and friends. Having Jesus Christ in my heart has changed my life several years ago. Would any of our bloggers want to find/try everlasting HOPE and PEACE? * ********************************** [How to Receive Christ ] from www.ficm.org/receivec.htm ************************************* (Your Invitation to Life) Jesus said, "...I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full" (John 10:10, NIV). Have you discovered the joy and peace of personally accepting Jesus' invitation to life? Perhaps you have believed in the existence of God and His Son and have tried to live a good life, but have never consciously invited Him to be your Savior and Lord. No matter who you are or what you have done, at this very moment, you too can make the decision of a lifetime. Right now Jesus is knocking at the door of your heart. He offers you the same wonderful life which millions through the centuries have received with life-changing results. He has already paid the penalty for your sin. He is asking you, in the quiet of your heart, to put your trust in Him. Here are four spiritual points that will help you discover how to know God personally and experience the full life He promises. * 1. God loves you and wants to have a personal relationship with you. God's Love: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16, NASV). "Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" (John 17:3). God wants you to know Him. Why is it that most people do not have a personal relationship with God? Because: * 2. Our sin cuts us off from God so we cannot have a personal relationship with Him and experience His love. We have all sinned. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Rom. 3:23, NASV). We were all created to have a personal relationship with God, because we all choose to go our own independent way, our relationship with God was broken. The fact that we are selfish and self-centered is obvious because we either rebel against God or don't really care about Him. This is evidence of what the Bible calls "sin." We are cut off from God. "The wages of sin is death..." [spiritual separation from God] (Rom. 6:23). God is holy (pure and sinless) and we are sinful. A great gap cuts us off from God because He cannot tolerate sin. People often try to find a full and meaningful life through their own efforts. They try to live a good life or be religious. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one way to bridge this gap. * 3. Jesus Christ is God's only cure for our sin. Through Him you can know God personally and experience His love. Jesus died in our place. "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Rom. 5:8, NASV). Jesus rose from the dead. "...Christ died for our sins . . . He was buried . . . He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . . He appeared to Cephas [Peter], then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred . . ." (1 Cor. 15:3-6, NASV). Jesus is the only way to God. Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me" (John 14:6, NASV). God has done the work to bridge the gap which cuts us off from Him. He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross in our place to pay the penalty for our sin. But it is not enough just to know these truths. We must take the next step . . . and "cross the bridge." * 4. We must individually receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord; then we can know God personally and experience His love. We must receive Christ. "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12, NASV). We receive Christ by personal invitation. Thus, receiving Christ involves turning to God from self (repentance) and trusting Christ to come into our lives to forgive our sins so that we can begin our personal relationship with Him. Just to know in your mind that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins is not enough. We receive Jesus Christ by faith, as an act of the will. Would you like to accept Jesus' invitation to life? You can receive Jesus Christ right now by faith through prayer. God knows your heart and is not so concerned with your words as He is with the attitude of your heart. Millions of people all around the world have already found new life in Christ. Here is a suggested prayer which can help you express your trust in Jesus, too: Dear Lord Jesus, I want to know You personally. Thank You for dying on the cross for my sins and for rising from the dead. I open the door of my life and receive You as my Savior and Lord. I trust You now to forgive my sins and give me eternal life. Please make me the kind of person You want me to be.
CRA|Reply
It's very important to recognize that these programs are less about "religious education" than back-door evangelism. Ironically, there's a history of these groups sending RTE children back to school with *candy* - as well as trinkets and invitations for their "unchurched" classmates. As always, it's all about getting a foot in the door of the public schools and gaining access to "unchurched" children behind the backs of their parents. But, don't take my word for it: Here's the director of the Oregon RTE program (PREP4Kids) calling the public schools "the mission field at our doorstep." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GZ2jstLHCo
bmtt|Reply
    Reply To : bmtt  Marcy, I really can't say much about what is going on in state of Oregon or Texas (you should contact/address Oregon residents with your worries)... but as far as here California is concerned, Release Time Program has been a positive venue for many children and we should expand it to all these drug infested Jr.,High schools as well. I know this program can make a positive impact on our youth....which is a wonderful thing.
    CRA|Reply
Here's a link to one article which reveals how disruptive these programs are to the learning of *ALL* students -- not just RTE kids (missing Science class in order to go hear about our 6,000 year old Earth... but, I digress). http://bit.ly/ZsHug OR http://www.oregonlive.com/washingtoncounty/index.ssf/2009/09/bible_study_proposal_raises_qu.html
bmtt|Reply
    Reply To : bmtt   Hmmm, let's examine different perspectives on science. Here is an alternate point of view on this subject matter and I would love to have my kids to be exposed/knowledgeable/cover all theories in science. More informed kids will fare better in their college education. CREATION SCIENCE: Evolution: Theory, Science of Philosophy by Becky Conolly. The term evolution conjures up different images to different people. For some it is a theory of origins, fraught with difficulties. For others it is science and as unquestionable as hydrogen and oxygen making water. Should you hold to the latter school of thought, you may also hold to a principal assumption of evolution; that the processes of evolution are random and accidental. This is taken one step further by evolutionary radicals as to propose that evolution disproves the existence of God. And so the philosophy of evolution is born. More will be said of these different points of view in future articles. If evolution is simply a theory, the implication is that it is possible for it to be flawed. A growing number of non-Christian scientists believe that if it is so flawed, there is nothing for it but to throw it out completely. Since the time of Darwin (the founder of the theory), anomalous findings have resulted in the adaptation of the theory itself. This is what one might expect of a man-made theory. Creationism, on the other hand, also proposes various models or theories as to what the earth may have been like over the ages. It is true that they have based their ideas upon some scriptural texts. How literally these scriptures have been taken has varied. In all cases however, these scriptures have been expanded upon in order to come up with a theory. Creation models are therefore also subject to errors and require refinement. It has to be said that evolutionary zeal has lead to extensive progress in what we know about our earth and its past. However, all discoveries have to fit the theory; or the theory needs adjusting. It is interesting that both theories use the same data but interpret it completely differently. What is important here, is that there are anomalies in both theories. But our modern world does not give nearly as much credibility to any theory of creation. This is probably due to the fact that the flaws of evolution are little known. There are few experts on the theory as a whole. Most scientists are highly specialised and take the work of other specialities for granted. The average person would never think to question the scientific establishment and seldom take the trouble to question whether we are indeed a product of random circumstance. Why should this be? Christians believe that left to ourselves, man does not want to be accountable to God. It is more comfortable to accept a philosophy of God’s non-existence. Scripture puts it like this: We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way. Isaiah 53:6 Having discussed evolution in terms of it being flawed theory, we now need to address the other point of view. Do you accept evolution as science? And if as science, do you consider evolution to be proven? True science is based upon what is repeatedly observed through experimentation. This is known as empirical data. All theories regarding the origins of life are based on what we observe of our world today. What we make of this information is highly speculative as we are not at liberty to observe the past. Neither can we re-enact the past to allow for repeatable observations. By definition then, evolution simply can not be considered science. If you are not convinced, and persist in embracing all of what is currently accepted as ‘evolution’, you may hold to the idea that our world is a product of chance. The most vocal protagonists of evolution are those who uphold this view. They claim there is no God. This is clearly moving beyond objective science, and could be defined as the philosophy of evolution. It is at this point that the debate is no longer academic. It cuts to the core of human experience. It has all sorts of ramifications upon our society. All those who sway more towards the acceptance of evolution as science, may believe that God’s non-existence is proven. This thinking is popular in the ‘developed’ world. It will become increasingly more prevalent in the ‘developing’ world. Many hold up the banner of evolution as their stumbling block for belief in God. After all, could all those scientists be wrong? Consider these few points: o Scientists have not always been right in their theorising. For many years, for example, people believed the earth to be flat. o The flaws of evolution are little known - even to highly specialised scientists. o The very laws and processes of nature are immutable (not evolving) and accepted as a given in our understanding of the universe. Evolutionists themselves use these laws in their craft. Where did they come from? What controls them? It is interesting that so many physicists are theists. o Christianity teaches that there is no excuse for disbelief in God as nature itself provides us with an intuition of God’s existence (see Romans 1:20). Michael Denton, a non-Christian medical doctor and molecular scientist, has this to say in his book ‘Evolution: A theory in crisis’, "The intuitive feeling that pure chance could never have achieved the degree of complexity and ingenuity so ubiquitous in nature has been a source of scepticism ever since the publication of the Origin of the Species (Darwin’s original work on evolution)…" Evolution is not science. As a theory, it is flawed. Any world-view taken from a pre-supposition of evolution therefore needs to be called into question. We need to be less ignorant of the claims and shortcomings of evolution. How important is truth? Examine your motives. Becky Conolly
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